What Party is Best for Ontario?

Another interesting discussion from TVO’s Agenda program, this time about the political dynamic of the federal election as it relates to the interests of Ontario.

I’m not sure that anything much was resolved in this debate in terms of the question posed, but it certainly provided some good insights into possible reasons why provincial concerns don’t seem to figure into the political dialog when it comes to Ontario in the same way as they tend to in other regions of Canada.

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30 Comments

Filed under 2011 Canadian Election

30 responses to “What Party is Best for Ontario?

  1. Tea Party Patriot

    Hey Martin.

    How do I find out who works at the TVO and how much they make per year?

    I’m just curious because this is Ontario state run TV and it’s paid for by the Ontario taxpayers even though the Ontario government never asked the public at large if we want it.

    Is the government able to just spend the taxpayers money on anything they want? Anything?

    I just don’t understand how Canadian raised individuals have been “taught” to not question anything the government does.

    The government rapes the treasury(us) , gives it their friends (at TVO) and the public has no input on the matter?

    What a shame.

    The average person in Canada will not be able to continue to pay the lavish rates the government soldiers demand.

    Layton, Harper, Iggy, every single government official should be overthrown and locked up for corruption.

    The very fact that nobody investigates the government, including the police, shows the path we are heading towards.

    It’s not good, but at least I know I will never be a slave to the state.

    My American relatives fought and died to get rid of the corruption that Canadians now enjoy.

    No taxation without representation.

    Who represents the average Canadian?

    Not the media. Or the police. The government will not.

    So who does?

  2. TVO was created back in 1970 by the Progressive Conservative government of Ontario to fill what they felt was a need for educational television.

    As for your disjointed, paranoid, hysterical questions, you should direct them to your local MPP if you feel that the $30 million per year spent on TVO is “raping the treasury” and then vote for a candidate in your riding who shares your views.

    Good luck with that.

  3. Tea Party Patriot

    “TVO was created back in 1970 by the Progressive Conservative government of Ontario to fill what they felt was a need for educational television.

    As for your disjointed, paranoid, hysterical questions, you should direct them to your local MPP if you feel that the $30 million per year spent on TVO is “raping the treasury” and then vote for a candidate in your riding who shares your views.

    Good luck with that.”

    Great answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. sapphireandsteel

    Isnt Tea Party Douchebag out here in BC? Personally I miss TVO, the Knowledge isn’t bad but its no TVO.

    TPP sure is a dim bulb isn’t he. Even a non conservative like me knows that Ontario under Davis was pretty good. The education system was much better than it is now and unlike the current Ontario PC party they seemed to care more about people over ideology.

    TPP sure is an antisocial sort. I guess it’s bitterness from always being picked last in dodgeball

  5. sapphireandsteel

    Oh TPP back to the bluster when you’ve got nothing. So why are you so over the top nutbar in your statements? I knOw it’s because you lack the cajones to defend them in person. I remember challenging you in the past but you started rambling about sodomy. I just don’t get the connection between your forced sex fantasies and politics. Then again you are also into believing noone has a right to an opinion other than your own so manybe you’re just a dominant bottom.

  6. sapphireandsteel

    Oh please TPP you are the biggest chickenshit I’ve come across in years. I can pretty much guarantee a few of the progressive weaklings I grew up in K-W with could break you in half without govt help. Heck I could do it myself. I don’t buy into the progressives are weak because TPP, I’ve challenged you twice & you’ve chickened out. Also CWTF has been challenging you cowards for years and all of you have chickened out.

    Captain of the dodgeball team, life has really gone down since then.

  7. sapphireandsteel

    Switching IP addresses TPP? Back to the gay thing again. You should come clean TPP. You’ll be much happier.

    Gender preference really isn’t a partisan thing but then again neither is saying you need some help

  8. sapphireandsteel

    A third IP address, TPP the bluster isn’t working. You come across as tough as a toddler hiding behind his mothers leg.

    Keep up with the inaccurate assumptions. It just makes proving you’re an ill educated douchenozzle becomes that more easy.

  9. sapphireandsteel

    We the people? More like one paranoid douchebag. I’m sure happy my American relatives don’t share the sociopath malaise that you have.

    Why change your email addy TPP? Seems like more cowardice. I like computers moron, & it doesn’t require a professor to figure this stuff out? Did you pay any attention in school.

    Btw your grasp of the American system is delusional. I’m sure ATY could be more eloquent but I prefer cutting to the chase.

    And you’re still a blustery coward

  10. sapphireandsteel

    Actually I went to UW but that’s irrlevant. You sound jealous of other people’s decision to get an education. That’s more your problem than mine.

    So why change the email so often? What are you trying to hide? Or do you realize that your batshit crazy behaviour could be interpreted as harassment or a sign that something is wrong with you?

    Cowardice, irrational anger and jealousy over others accomplishments. You’re quite the prize pig TPP

  11. Seems “Captain” TPP isn’t even capable of spelling LOSER correctly. How ironic.

  12. sapphireandsteel

    Go often my punctuation all you want TPP. I’m on a mobile device and has some limitations as a result. It still doesnt explain your inability to answer or defend a position with confidence

    As for America I haven’t found a tea partier amongst them. Why would anyone with a brain think that is a good ideology. I don’t think you understand Americans as much as you think. You should read some pre colonial history, it’s very interesting and portrays an America far more complex than you could understand. I know it will be hard with the usual tea party simplification but I’m sure someone can help you with the big words

  13. sapphireandsteel

    And yes the iPhone autocorrect produces some oddities but it keeps captain TPP going.

  14. By the way, TPP, if you think I can’t block your asinine comments just because you switch IP #s all the time, think again. There’s more than one way to skin a puerile chickenshit like you.

    Generally, I’m happy to let people say whatever they want, but your comments are vile, pointless, and actually quite insane, so I may make an exception to the rules of free speech in your case.

  15. sapphireandsteel

    Well I worked in a tire factory to pay for school, volunteered to fight fires in 93 to save my town. I also hate to tell you this but my hourly rate is significantly higher than a plumber.

    I come from working class poor roots. Life growing wasn’t easy and I know what it’s like to work your ass off for peanuts. I also knew I wanted more.

    I haven’t used my degree either. I started out taking a job as a printer devil and worked my way up to a commercial artist. Now with training I could become a plumber but you’d fail miserably at my job.

    Self made businessman? Well I’ve been running my own consultancy for over a decade with a great deal of success so I guess you professor strawman just got toppled.

    But i see a pattern here TPP. I think it has to do with your own inadequacies

  16. sapphireandsteel

    Funny I was in the US a couple of months ago and people weren’t as paranoid nutball as you are. Florida ugh… State of sinkholes. My family is from New England. Guess they helped create the country you missrepresent

  17. sapphireandsteel

    Thanks Red. Plus nice one confirming the ip switch. Guess the Internet isn’t the type of pipes the angry plumber is used to working with

  18. sapphireandsteel

    Not a single govt contract TPP. My client list is impressive. I don’t have employees personally bit I do subcontract companies. Once again no govts and often I require a team ranging from 5 – 7 plus IT support. So that makes me as important to tax generating as you.

    But continue with the delusion that a single plumber is keeping the govt afloat

  19. sapphireandsteel

    TPP pwned!! This calls for a hashtag fail.

    Too bad he won’t make good on his promised and stay away

  20. sapphireandsteel

    Not horseshit at all TPP. I work online and depending on the requirements I range with the number of people I used. I require a great deal of technical support and that costs too. For my last client I was dealing with traffic of 35 million unique visitors a month, that requires more staff than a wordpress blog. Corporate sites are huge under the hood and often require a few people to run them.

    But it seems too much for you to grasp… you know, reality

  21. sapphireandsteel

    I really hate the iPhone autocorrect

  22. No more TPP. Even my tolerance has its limits.

    As I’ve said before, folks can say whatever they want in pretty much whatever form they want to express themselves, but I do reserve the right to revoke that privilege in the case of malicious, disruptive trolls, which TPP clearly was.

    He’ll have to take his dodgeball and go play elsewhere from now on.

  23. Darlene

    Too bad your blog gets full up with partisan shit. This would have had some interesting opinions if people could stay on topic.

  24. Yep, that’s what ticked me off so much about TPP’s insane bullshit in this instance. It’s actually kind of an interesting topic of discussion. Unfortunately, some folks have their own ideological axes and personal issues to grind away at that they selfishly want to impose on everyone else and ruin any chance of thoughtful commentary.

  25. Tea Prty Patriot

    Red Tory is a faggot.

    I’m going to get a blog going where free speech isn’t an issue.

    I will attack you so much you probably want to call a lawyer.

    But my First Amendment will protect me.

    Go fuck yourself.

  26. jkg

    Whoa! Red, I leave for a three days, and TPP when on some free association adventure! Well, I suppose it had to happen. Given what that you had to tolerate more unlettered discharges of toxic verbiage in the past (ahem, Guzzy and the other troll with the Reagan avatar), I can understand your limit is being reached quite easily.

    As for this interesting topic. The issue is that despite modern evidence to contrary, Ontario oscillates quite a bit from Toryism to Liberalism. I think this is largely because how certain attitudes become entrenched due to actions of those particular parties in governments. The NDP tenure practically poisoned the well considerably, but what it did is redraw the political lines such that the wealthy business constituency, some of whom have a clear Loyalist history (e.g. Upper Canada College’s alumni), became influential once again. The interesting aspect of this constituency is that fact that “Bay Street” can be Liberal and Progressive Conservative depending on what is offered federally and provincially. When the Harris government came in, no matter how hated he was, his government managed to achieve a broad consensus that even citizens in the “crazy, leftist” downtown Toronto considered his government an acceptable “second choice.” However, at the federal level, Liberals were handed majorities thanks to that Ontario Liberal support.

    You may think being a “second choice” is inconsequential, but it is not. That carries over into creating considerable confidence limits (yes, for the statistically inclined, I am borrowing that term) for many voters despite getting a lower popular vote.

    I may be putting too much stock into “Bay Street,” but I cannot ignore their role in participating in this election. I view them as a leading indicator as to what the electoral shift may be. The question is, of course, is how much they are seduced by the gaggle of tax exemptions and credits offered by the CPC. At this point, I think that Toryism that once was so importantly defended is being given away to self-interest, despite the fact that the CPC rests their voter base on Anti-Eastern or more specifically Anti-Toronto populism and Prairie demagoguery. Given that the Ontario PC has adopted a Reform style political infrastructure in terms of messaging and discourse, it is almost as if though this glaring observation is becoming whitewashed. What is the most concerning is that it is becoming an epithet when one accuses another ‘Toronto-centric,” which is ironically hurled by a hardened Western, populist regionalist.

    I think this is where we can trace precisely how Toryism has been usurped. The whole point of a strong central government was to reaffirm the historical legacy of Canadian federalism, and Toronto was but of many centers in which the political and constitutional character was formed. No doubt there would be an enduring influence on federal affairs, but it was the ancestors of that very same constituency today who willfully encouraged surplus revenues to expand and unite this Dominion. I refuse to apologize to neoconservative populists because there are serious individuals who may still want to keep that legacy alive by exerting their influence. If Ontarians are really serious about wanting to still be relevant, they have to stop this oscillation between parties based on cafeteria or retail politics lest they become just as de-politicized as other constituencies who profess a ‘vision’ that oddly vanishes beyond their NIMBYist chain-link fence.

    At this point, I really do not think there is a party that is good for Ontario. I was really hoping that Ignatieff could capture some right leaning centrists who have not been seduced by neoliberalism much less perpetual contrarianism. I think he tried by putting great emphasis on ‘family’ as a principal social unit in society, but I fear that it was not enough. It has becoming somewhat of a joke these days that Canada, while couched in a history of strong federalism, is becoming far more decentralized than our cousins to the south who are far more federated in many aspects despite having a popular history of decentralization (the inability to implement a national securities regulator here comes to mind).

  27. TPP: I really don’t see what my sexuality has to do with anything, but if calling people “faggot” floats your boat, then whatever. For the record, I’m bisexual, but currently (and probably in perpetuity) celibate. Knock yourself out with that one.

    Sure, fire up a blog attacking me. Funnily enough, you won’t be the first person to have done so.

    p.s. We don’t call it the “First Amendment” here in Canada.

  28. JKG: Lots of good points there. What I see coming from the Bay Street crowd is a vigorous defense of the Harper corporate tax rate cut which is no surprise, but kind of short-sighted (also no surprise). I think that with all the present insecurity over the tentative economic “recovery” most folks are going to bet on the Conservatives being at the helm rather than be attracted to the Liberals’ collection of worth proposals bundled under the “Family Pack” label (horrible name, btw). Those who most adamantly oppose the HarperCon regime will likely cast their votes in favour of the NDP… not so much for their policy proposals, but just because they trust them to be more representative of their opposition to Harper.

    As for which party is best for Ontario, I think the answer is simple: “All of the above.”

  29. Canada, while couched in a history of strong federalism, is becoming far more decentralized than our cousins to the south…

    Canada always has been far more decentralised than the U.S. That’s why an interventionist New Dealesque stimulus package was impossible for us in the 1930s and why a federal ministry of education would be impossible for us now.

    Those on the right who decry our “centralisation” do so for the same reason they decry our “liberal” media; they just want those things to be even more of what the cynical hacks know they already are: they want Canada to be even more decentralised (as if that’s possible) and our press to be even more continentalist and free-market fundamentalist.

    I really do not think there is a party that is good for Ontario.

    I’m still looking for a party that is good for Canada. All I see are some Avis Rent-a-Car salesmen running for the chairmanship of their Knights of Columbus branch.

  30. SF: Indeed. Not a terribly inspirational bunch on offer at the moment. Hard to get worked up over competing tax credits, deficit reduction schemes, and spending plans…

    Could it all possibly be less scintillating?

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