Happy Thanksgiving!

To all my American friends. Especially those presently in transit to their dreaded fam-damnly gatherings.

And remember… religion, politics and alcohol don’t mix well.

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65 Comments

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65 responses to “Happy Thanksgiving!

  1. Guzzeuntite

    Why, thank you.

    Am looking forward to singing the following song with my two young daughters to my relative, who works for GISS cleaning up — er, I mean encoding — AGW climate models:

  2. Guzzeuntite — You kind of beat me to the punch on this one as I was thinking of posting Alex Jones’ vids about “Climategate”…

    But seeing as you’ve opened the door, maybe I’ll just include them here:

  3. I am not familiar with him, but I think the scandal will is big and likely won’t be contained.

    GISS is going to be sued. In actuality, your admonishment about discussing politics and religion at Thankgiving dinner is well founded. Nevertheless, I will find it difficult not to hum that catchy tune.

    I fear my relative might be in for a rough ride in the coming years.

  4. You should check him out… He’s a bit kooky what with the NWO, NAU and Bilderburger conspiracy stuff, but interesting, usually thought-provoking, and most certainly entertaining.

    Fortunately, I’m spared from family gatherings given that my parents are both dead and I’m now considered to be an evil pariah to my in-laws and the entirety of my wife’s extended family. Such a rotten person I am, apparently… But back in the day talking about anything remotely interesting such as politics or religion was a sure-fire way of generating vehement hostility.

  5. “But back in the day talking about anything remotely interesting such as politics or religion was a sure-fire way of generating vehement hostility.”

    Now I just make stupid and outrageous jokes and recite silly and outrageous “poetry” (as long as it rhymes) that I make up on the spot about some current event (non-politcal of course). The kids, who are getting older, love it. Dad, not so much. My wife thinks (knows?) I’m an idiot, but laughs nonetheless. The wine helps.

  6. I finished the videos. Interesting. It will be fascinating to see how all this plays out. Likely, it will be along predictable lines, but where it will end, I don’t know.

    Because my relative has been associated quite closely with AGW modeling, he knows the key players — the TOP key guys. Look, I love my relative, but I know his politics. His office-mates share these politics, and I have long felt that politics infected and influenced the science. I think this infection was there from the beginning.

    Despite their caricature, most AGW skeptics appreciate and value the scientific method. I know I do, and it is for this reason that I know that the truth will eventually come out; it almost always does.

  7. Ti-Guy

    Why you bother being gracious with respect to a country populated with bilious psychotics is a mystery to me, Red.

    When was the last time any of the them wished Canadians a happy Thanksgiving?

    I hate their Thanksgiving anyway. Self-serving myths about conciliatory dinners with friendly natives, stupid pilgrims dressed up in clown suits and dumb little traditions like “pardoning a turkey.” What a fucking crock.

    I wouldn’t have posted this comment by the way, if Sir Francis were doing his job! 😉

  8. Oh I don’t know why. Chalk it up to Citalopram®…

    I just find it difficult these days to get angered or terribly worked up about much of anything. Besides, I enjoy being gracious and polite — “Manners maketh the man” as my Mum used to say.

    Yes, the Thanksgiving mythology is a crock, to be sure, but then so are most tales surrounding our major holidays. It’s still possible to shake off all that nonsense and enjoy some pleasant engagement with one’s family, no?

  9. Guzzeuntite

    “I hate their Thanksgiving anyway. Self-serving myths about conciliatory dinners with friendly natives, stupid pilgrims dressed up in clown suits and dumb little traditions like “pardoning a turkey.” What a fucking crock.”

    Maybe, but at least it’s not a DERIVATIVE Thanksgiving, filled with self-serving myths, the same tasteless bird, cooked so dry that it’s more like eating a fat wad of cotton than anything resembling food, accompanied by horrible gelatinous canned cranberry sauce, and followed by the same dreary store-bought pie … all interspaced with alternately insipid and confrontational conversations among unhappy family members.

    Hope your Thanksgiving was a good one.

  10. Ti-Guy

    Maybe, but at least it’s not a DERIVATIVE Thanksgiving

    Yes it is. Ours takes place earlier in the year. Therefore ours came first and you copied it.

    Idiot. It’s a Christian/harvest festival that’s common to all Europeans. And there aren’t any self-serving myths associated with ours. It’s just family and food. There’s very little commercialisation as well.

  11. Ti-Guy

    Hope your Thanksgiving was a good one.

    It was a good one. My extended family, being francophone, knows good food. So everything is from scratch. Even the pumpkin pie is made from fresh pumpkin and the cranberry sauce (which no one actually likes, but you *have* to have it) from fresh cranberries. And a fresh, never-frozen turkey, brined for three days to make sure it’s moist, naturally.

  12. “I hate their Thanksgiving anyway.”

    and he hasn’t even had his digestif yet….

    KEvron

  13. Ti-Guy

    It’s not idle anti-Americanism, KEvron. I really do *hate* American thanksgiving.

    I grew up with native people and the myths about the conciliatory feast made them livid. It was the biggest lie every told. The native people were displaced through various actions of the settlers and the “sharing of their bounty” was in fact the settlers living off the food that the natives had left behind.

  14. Canadian Thanksgiving has a genealogy entirely separate from the American variety, and, yes, it does appear to have been established earlier. I believe John Cabot’s thanksgiving ceremony is the first North American one on record, but I would need to look that up–which I’m not inclined to do right now. Incidentally, Labour Day was a Canadian initiative as well.

    The native people were displaced through various actions of the settlers…

    I bet American Natives curse their ancestors for having fed and supplied the Puritans throughout the time of crisis that Thanksgiving commemorates. It was actually the perfect time to slaughter them all, or just sit back and watch them waste away. Ah, the roads not taken…

    When was the last time any [Americans] wished Canadians a happy Thanksgiving?

    Most of them are not aware that we have a Thanksgiving. Do you really think American calendars make note of Canadian (or British, or Australian) holidays? How many Americans know better than to think that “Boxing Day” refers to the custom of buying flowers and chocolates for one’s favourite amateur pugilist?

    In any case, Americans are quite sure we celebrate our holidays by ritually burning twelve Caucasian heterosexual males upon a pyre encircled by a string of half-caste Marxist lesbians performing a eurhythmic dance in honour of Ho Chi Minh. Wishing us to have a happy one of those would constitute an endorsement that our God-fearing southern friends refuse to offer–for our own good, of course.

  15. “It’s not idle anti-Americanism”

    can’t a guy bust your balls a little with you protesting too much?

    aside from the travel aspect, most american thanksgiving celebrations – those i’ve attended, anyway – are rather subdued affairs, the notion of the feast often being larger than the actual. outside of primary school pageants, the myths get little play.

    KEvron

  16. Ti-Guy

    In any case, Americans are quite sure we celebrate our holidays by ritually burning twelve Caucasian heterosexual males upon a pyre encircled by a string of half-caste Marxist lesbians performing a eurhythmic dance in honour of Ho Chi Minh.

    You credit them with far too much imagination, not to mention a passing familiarity with history. b I can imagine just how many times the name “Ho Chi Minh” comes up in conversation down there, despite being a central figure in their recent history.

    The typical reaction. if there is one at all, is what was provided earlier; the parroting of the word “derivative.” Says so much while it says nothing at all.

  17. What strange twists and turns the conversation takes here at times…

    I see no need to hate American Thanksgiving, despite the hackneyed mythology involving Pilgrims and Indians. By the way, I heartily endorse the notion of driving the aforementioned religious asshats into the ocean from whence they came… But alas, not having a TARDIS to effect such a thing it’s all just counterfactual water under the bridge.

    As for Americans not recognizing our holidays… some of us really need to get over ourselves. Do we recognize European holidays on our calendars? Don’t forget, December 8th is Immaculate Conception Day!!!

  18. Ti-Guy

    can’t a guy bust your balls a little with you protesting too much?

    I can’t help it. I’m a sensitive, delicate flower.

  19. “Americans are quite sure we celebrate our holidays by….”

    most americans couldn’t care less how the family next door celebrates.

    how do they celebrate it swaziland, mr wizard?

    KEvron

  20. “Do we recognize European holidays on our calendars?”

    swaziland….

    KEvron

  21. “some of us really need to get over ourselves”

    the same ones who grouse about american exceptionalism?

    KEvron

  22. …the same ones who grouse about american exceptionalism?

    …including you, unless you’ve become retroactively pro-Bush? 😉

  23. Guzzeuntite

    “It’s not idle anti-Americanism, KEvron. I really do *hate* American thanksgiving.”

    Good for you! And I hate the way Canadians always insist they invented everything before Americans (Sir Frannnnnnk?).

    Nevertheless, my hatred is probably “idle” hatred, not real hatred. Mostly because it’s not hatred at all, but real amusement, not idle amusement.

    “I grew up with native people and the myths about the conciliatory feast made them livid.”

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Sure it did, Ti-Guy, sure it did. Now, you’ve really amused me. Real amusement. Walt Disney World amusement.

  24. Ti-Guy

    the same ones who grouse about american exceptionalism

    Gee, I wonder where we get that silly notion:

    I’m not sure the rest of the world sees the White House as “the place to be” any more. And that will have unsettling consequences for all of us.

    Read the whole thing. It’s truly astonishing.

  25. Don’t forget, December 8th is Immaculate Conception Day!!!

    Oh, I’ll have no problem keeping that in mind, Red. It’s a holiday at the Catholic private school where I teach. In fact, I think you’ll find that Catholics, of whom there are more than a few in this country, are vividly aware of that particular holiday–mostly because it’s more religious than strictly European.

    Point taken, all the same. Bastille Day is not a huge event in my household; I am aware that it exists, however.

  26. TofKW

    “In any case, Americans are quite sure we celebrate our holidays by ritually burning twelve Caucasian heterosexual males upon a pyre encircled by a string of half-caste Marxist lesbians performing a eurhythmic dance in honour of Ho Chi Minh.”

    Ah yes, good times! 🙂

  27. “Gee, I wonder where we get that silly notion”

    if only you guys hadn’t invented it first.

    “Read the whole thing.”

    any neutral party who’s followed this blog for any length of time will appreciate the irony.

    KEvron

  28. Canadians always insist they invented everything before Americans…

    You cannot invent something before someone else invents it, genius. Acts of invention are unrepeatable.

    You can, of course, invent something before someone else gets the chance to invent it–which is what occurred with Labour Day, as you would discover if your aversion to learning didn’t render you allergic to facts.

    Oh, here. I’ll save you the trouble of finding the data on your own. Noblesse oblige.

  29. Ti-Guy

    Sure it did, Ti-Guy, sure it did.

    I grew up in Northern Ontario, you bilious psychotic. I’ve mentionned it hundreds of times. The population is 10% aboriginal and the town I grew up in, 20%.

  30. why the fuck do you guys waste time on him?!

    KEvron

  31. Guzzy has no clue where this place you call “Ontario” is, Ti–though he suspects it’s on the continent of France, close to the prefecture of Siberia…or someplace.

  32. I believe Ontario is actually located somewhere in greater Los Angeles (and yes, I know that’s a contradiction in terms).

  33. “prefecture of Siberia”

    i’d steal that, but the only audience for it i know already heard it.

    KEvron

  34. It’s a form of homeopathic investment, KEv. We believe that, when wasted time is applied to a species of human waste, a bounty of blessings arrives in return.

    But, yeah–it may not be worth it, ultimately.

  35. “Ontario is actually located somewhere in greater Los Angeles”

    auto racing town.

    KEvron

  36. I believe Ontario is actually located somewhere in greater Los Angeles.

    I’m ashamed to say that I learned that little factoid during an episode of 24.

  37. Ti-Guy

    why the fuck do you guys waste time on him?!

    Because, like Mount Everest, it’s there.

    Besides, I’m fascinated by such personalities, who apparently have wifes and children and jobs and everything. Kind of like this guy.

  38. Ti-Guy

    Ewps. “wives.”

  39. Ti-Guy

    I’m ashamed to say that I learned that little factoid during an episode of 24.

    I learned about it from Truth or Consequences in the 70’s. I also thought, for a long time and rather uncharitably, that “La Canada” (La Cañada) was just another example of American illiteracy.

  40. SF — In fact, I think you’ll find that Catholics, of whom there are more than a few in this country…

    Quite oddly, my two best friends are Catholic and most of the people I’ve worked with and for over the years have also been Catholic. As a matter of fact, just speculating offhand, I can’t think of any certifiable Protestants that have crossed my path (so to speak). And to be honest, most of the church services I’ve attended past the age of 6 have been Catholic (not counting secular afternoon meditations at Christ Church while listening to organ practice).

    Funny thing is this regard… a while back I was called upon by a friend to put together a little devotional advert for a private school album and had originally chosen a picture taken from a statue of Jesus. My friend then gently scolded me and suggested that the Virgin Mary would be more appropriate subject. That speaks volumes to me in the difference between our sectarian creeds.

  41. KEv — Yep, auto racing town indeed. Back in the day, I used to consolidate airfreight from LAX to Vancouver and Ontario was one of our regional pick-ups.

  42. I…had originally chosen a picture taken from a statue of Jesus. My friend then gently scolded me and suggested that the Virgin Mary would be [a] more appropriate subject…

    …so you split the difference and used a picture of a virginal-looking Jesus… 😉

  43. No, smartass… As a good client, I obliged my friend’s wishes and used a statuary image of the chaste Virgin Mary instead.

    Whatever… It’s all ridiculous poppycock to me.

  44. Ti-Guy

    She wasn’t chaste after Jesus was born.

  45. I’m rather confused by the whole concept of Immaculate Conception in the first place, so I couldn’t possibly comment on it. I do however find it somewhat interesting that the Catholic Church maintains the idea that life in general arises at the moment of “conception” (however weirdly that expression may be defined) while also contending that its most glorious saviour was somehow conceived by virtue of some immaculate, non-sexual device.

  46. It’s all ridiculous poppycock to me.

    But it has made for some rippingly good art though, hasn’t it? As for the bad art—well, that would have gotten made anyway: modernity demands kitsch. For the Sistine Chapel, thank the Church; for the Virgin Mary night-light, blame Edison.

    She wasn’t chaste after Jesus was born.

    Smartass… 😉

  47. Ti-Guy

    Mary is the Immaculate Conception, since she was born without original sin. Jesus is the issue of the virgin birth. Catholics are supposed to believe that Mary remained a virgin throughout her entire life, but a plain reading of the Bible demonstrates he had brothers and sisters.

    What’s the point of all that? Who knows, who cares…

  48. SF — Most certainly, and I’d be more than happy to ply that trade and traffic in such nonsense if given the opportunity.

  49. …its most glorious saviour was somehow conceived by virtue of some immaculate, non-sexual device…

    …which women can now finally purchase without need of their husbands’ written consent in Ireland, I’m happy to announce.

    Now, why not just admit that you’ve irrevocably determined upon a death-bed conversion to Holy Mother Church, Red—and that you’ve already memorised the bon mot you plan to utter (akin to “Either this wallpaper goes, or I do”) when the sacrament of Confirmation has been conferred?

  50. Ti-Guy — I’m more interested in the meta-narrative of the tale rather than the specific particulars involved that are easily debunked.

  51. Ti-Guy

    I’m more interested in the meta-narrative of the tale

    Well, the virgin birth and life beginning at conception are elements of dogma separated by centuries. They arose for different reasons; one out of existing mythology that demonstrates how God or gods transcend mere humans, and the other for political reasons more than anything else.

    What they mean to modern believers I have no idea. I personally don’t think they have any meaning at all for them, but are merely proclaimed to be meaningful as a sign of one’s commitment to one’s faith; the more you insist you believe in something absurd, the more committed you are seen to be.

  52. TofKW

    “Catholics are supposed to believe that Mary remained a virgin throughout her entire life”

    A good friend of mine who is an ordained Lutheran minister, has labeled me a Catholic atheist …markedly different from Protestant atheists don’t you know. Now back when I was a regular church goer I did take it on faith about Mary and the virgin birth. Now about her remaining a virgin throughout her entire life …well there’s faith, and then there’s gullibility.

  53. “markedly different from Protestant atheists don’t you know.”

    fuckin’ a, especially when you’re an irish catholic atheist.

    KEvron

  54. i hate auto racing. boring, loud, smelly and boring. and it’s boring.

    KEvron

  55. jkg

    Don’t forget lapsed Catholics or as my protestant father would say, the “dirty Catholics” after a few pints of beer. I suppose one of the advantages having a devout Irish Catholic mother and a curmudgeon protestant father was that their butting heads made for a good modern interpretation of the Reformation. After all, it was due to my father that I never went to French Catholic school. So, on Sunday afternoons, while my heathen friends from public school were outside playing, I was doing religion lessons by correspondence and attending Catholic Youth Group.

    Strangely, since I didn’t go to Catholic school, I was looked upon as some ignorant outsider. The ironic twist of course was that most of these uppity and pedantic bible students pretty much did their confirmation and threw all that Catholicism right out the window when entering high school and discovering the world of punk music, drugs, and sex.

  56. The ironic twist of course was that most of these uppity and pedantic bible students pretty much…threw all that Catholicism right out the window when entering high school and discovering the world of punk music, drugs, and sex.

    Got a problem with that? 😉

    I was different. I became a devout Catholic while discovering the world of punk, drugs and sex. Precocious readings of Baudelaire, Rimbaud and Verlaine helped me immensely.

    One cannot really be Catholic without being willing to feast on one’s own moral turpitude. Consuming it is the only sure way of ridding oneself of it—of excreting it, as it were—though one must expect the process to take a few decades, or five. I’ve just finished the hors d’oeuvres of my own existential repast, with plenty more crimson sins to savour and swallow.

  57. Martin Frobisher >>> Canadian Thanksgiving.

    1578 that is .

    42 years before the Puritans of Plymouth.

  58. would you guys mind masking your penis envy just a bit? thanks, fags.

    look, when we say “the first thanksgiving”, we mean our first. okay? fer fuckssakes.

    KEvron

  59. …thanks, fags.

    Oh, but you’re so welcome, my good man. Please let us know if ever we can be of some further assistance to you.

    Now, if you’ll just leave your huge uncut Yankee schlong on the counter, you can be on your way.

  60. oh, don’t tell me we’re going to get hung up on me using “fag.” i don’t use it casually; twice ever, here, and both instances playing at the ugly american.

    KEvron

  61. Fags? Red and Sir Francis own Harleys?

  62. Red and Sir Francis own Harleys?

    Too noisy for me. I prefer BMWs (now that’s a machine!)

    As for the fag thing, I happened to run across this the other day.

  63. jkg

    I became a devout Catholic while discovering the world of punk, drugs and sex

    That occurs quite a bit in the punk and rock world where some bands transfer over to the Christian rock genre. I have always been fascinated by the concept of Christian anarchism in general, especially when there are these “metalcore” groups who are very devout.

    One cannot really be Catholic without being willing to feast on one’s own moral turpitude…I’ve just finished the hors d’oeuvres of my own existential repast, with plenty more crimson sins to savour and swallow

    As an Irish Catholic, this is all very true; most of my fellow young Catholics came that realization during their teenage years. It generally made them very well rounded and good people, dropping the pretense of existential and spiritual superiority over us wayward members of the flock who went to public school. I don’t expect everyone will transform in the same manner as the authour of the City of God, but having been exposed to such things has made them more grounded and not scared of every peccadillo that would come to pass.

  64. For most of Catholic history, they didn’t believe that “life” began at conception. Instead they believe that “ensoulment” began at the first sign of foetal movement, called the quickening.

    Wiki: Ensoulment

    The switcheroo happened in the 19th Century.

  65. “I happened to run across this the other day. “

    i know that comment section without even reading it.

    KEvron

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