20 Replies to “Health Care Reform”

  1. Amusing, if somewhat naive. The difficulty in the U.S. is a massive deficit, and to institute an immediate broad public system will, firstly, put massive numbers of people out of work overnight who are employed in a huge private health care system, and will cost the U.S. an ungodly amount of money that, right now, they don’t have.

    Health care is a ticking time-bomb in every nation in the world, including Canada. Recently, during a speech, it was suggested that Canadians who are 40 today may live until they are 200. Think about THAT. Think about that added cost to our system, in terms of chronic and critical care, in terms of medication.. and then criticize Obama (look, me sticking up for Barack..lol)..

    It’s a hell of a problem, and while the video is amusing and wry, it belies the reality of a horrible problem that most of us would rather ignore than try and come to grips with.

  2. “Recently, during a speech, it was suggested that Canadians who are 40 today may live until they are 200.”

    Well, if it was in a speech…

    Why would people living until they were 200 necessarily mean that it would strain the healthcare system? If my second 100 years are going to be spent hooked up to a machine I think I will pass.

  3. “Recently, during a speech, it was suggested that Canadians who are 40 today may live until they are 200. ”

    Was this at a science fiction/comic book convention?

  4. Recently, during a speech, it was suggested that Canadians who are 40 today may live until they are 200.

    C’mon, Rob. That’s just trolling.

  5. Rats – I’m over 40 already…..guess I will only get another 30 or 40 years out of the deal at best.

    In all seriousness though, I do agree with Rob about the seriousness of the problem and the immense challenge it presents all govts with. The whole idea that some of our best medical minds are working towards keeping people alive longer and longer is frankly, a big part of the problem.

  6. as krugman’s latest column pointed out; according to the congressional budget office, achieving universal coverage is not that expensive. this is due to the fact that the uninsured are young and thus don’t need much care, the poor are already covered by medicaid and the old covered by medicare. granted that is merely expanding coverage under an insurance regime.

  7. “..noted German gerontologist Graham Pawelek is of a similar mind. “In the next ten to 20 years science will have advanced sufficiently to allow people to live, say, 150 or 200 years,” he recently boasted to The Chronicle of Higher Education.”

    .. and maybe that’s conservative, Aubrey de Grey, thinks we may be able to live much longer.. and his efforts, and his approach is endorsed by many noted Biomedical Experts (http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/tabid/68/id/10688/Default.aspx)

    I’m no scientist, I don’t know if he’s right.. but I didn’t pull this out of my *ss either.. and no question but the drive to extend our lives, while noble, is an incredible burden on health care.

    So much more medicines are being invented to treat disease and illness, accompanied by new and better forms of rehabilitative surgery (titanium hips, knees, etc.).. which is all great in theory, but there is a cost.

    And Canuckistanian.. go read the report, to compensate for the cost, there will be a floating premium system, depending upon income.. for example:

    “Couple with dependent children: $15,210 plus $1,000 for each additional dependent child (beyond the first child).”

    Now – to be fair – this is the “maximum” and only kicks in when incomes are over $125,000.00 per annum.. but, guess who makes more than that? Doctors.

    And guess how many doctors are going to want to work in a system where their income is controlled, and where they have to pay $17,000.00 per year for health care..

    I’m clealry in favor of Universal health care.. but, realistically, it’s not going to happen in the U.S. through a pure public system.. and the video is also correct, that private interests will do their best to make sure it doesn’t.

  8. Rob H.
    …firstly, put massive numbers of people out of work overnight who are employed in a huge private health care system,…

    What an absolute load of crap. That’s like saying that we better not lower the unemployment rate because of all the jobs that will be lost in the debt collection and foreclosure industries.

    Forcing insurance companies to be competitive and having them give up near-monopolies would be the best cure-all for our (the US’s) healthcare woes. It never ceases to amaze me how all the free-marketers cry foul when their corporate masters are threatened with competition.

  9. Don’t bitch out my pal, Rob, CC. He and ChuckerCanuck are the only Conservatives in Canada I can talk to. And he actually supports public health care (and if you check his profile, he’s a lawyer who is ‘very involved in the promotion of Collaborative Law – an alternative to litigation for people to resolve differences in a respectful manner ‘). He’s just worried that beleaguered, impecunious insurance industry workers will lose their jobs.

    He hasn’t thought it all through, but then, he hasn’t had to.

  10. Sorry T-G, but you would think someone from Canada, with the background you say he has, would just know better than to be a corporate enabler.

    He’s just worried that beleaguered, impecunious insurance industry workers will lose their jobs.

    I just get so tired of listening to all the fearmongering about how the country risks financial ruin if industry x is asked to do something. To counter Rob’s claim, what about all the people that would be hired to run the Public Option?

  11. CC.. ok, firstly, I’m not advocating the U.S. health care system. It’s a mess, and most hurts the middle and lower middle class, who can afford insurance, but who suffer greatly if they pay for it, and most often choose not to.

    My point isn’t that the system in the U.S. doesn’t need to change, it’s that it doesn’t need to become Canada’s system and will not become Canada’s system, as anyone looking at our system critically, will understand it needs serious work as well.. beyond just throwing more money into it.

    But, that being said, your comment is, well, kind of simplistic.

    ie) ,“To counter Rob’s claim, what about all the people that would be hired to run the Public Option?”

    10,000.00 jobs lost in the private sector, from a taxpayer perspective, isn’t made up by hiring the same 10,000.00 in the public sector. In a sense, government employees don’t pay tax.. so the math you suggest doesn’t compute. Anyone but the most strident NDP supporter would accede to that..

    Though, I will grant you, that it is likely that for every one worker employed to do a job in the private sector, it is reasonable to assume that the government will hire two to do the same work..

  12. Oh, and please explain the concept of “corporate enabler”.. is that like, making sure that places like GMC and Ford don’t shut down? That sort of “corporate enabling”? Because I’m thinking there are a lot of out of CAW members that are suddenly having second thoughts about the concept that the success of a business has no relationship to the workers welfare.

    Sometimes the best lessons are learned hard.

  13. as anyone looking at our system critically, will understand it needs serious work as well.

    By “anyone”, Rob means people like him and The National Citizens Coalition (former director, Stephen Harper), which was set up by London, Ontario insurance barons to strangle universal health care in its cradle.

    That’s how you’re a corporate enabler, Rob.

  14. Must come back to this….

    RobH

    “Couple with dependent children: $15,210 plus $1,000 for each additional dependent child (beyond the first child).”

    Now – to be fair – this is the “maximum” and only kicks in when incomes are over $125,000.00 per annum…”

    Well that will be a relief to all my US friends who $1400+ per month right now for their families coverage, and quite often more for some of the shittiest health coverage in the US. And by the way—they don’t make anywhere near $125K. Maybe 60-70K if they are lucky.

    And they have to call and ask permission to go to an ER, even if they are close to death. Or their kids are.

    So really, this plan sounds kinda sweet.

    Don’t believe me? Go read some of the US mommybloggers on my blogroll. They would give ANYTHING for decent healthcare.

  15. I will grant you there is one thing our system needs work on.

    Prevention, which we all suck at, because we all like smoking and drinking and eating bad food. But that isn’t about the healthcare system, that’s all about our lazyass lifestyle in Canada and in the US.

    Which is why no one will ever live to be 200. We like beer and smokes and snacks too much.

  16. Which is why no one will ever live to be 200. We like beer and smokes and snacks too much.

    It’s called “living”… I’ve heard it’s generally fatal.

  17. Rob H.

    Though, I will grant you, that it is likely that for every one worker employed to do a job in the private sector, it is reasonable to assume that the government will hire two to do the same work..

    I can’t speak to Canada, but in the US the public sector’s healthcare plans (Medicare & Medicaid) are more efficiently run, cost a lot less and, in some cases, have better outcomes than in the private sector.

    T-G: re: “corporate enabler” – exactly! Like someone who runs around repeating blatant falsehoods for the betterment of corporations.

  18. It’s called “living”… I’ve heard it’s generally fatal.

    The Japanese smoke like chimneys and drink like fish and they live pretty long.

    It’s really much more related to diet.

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