Israel kept up its bombardment of Gaza overnight expanding its targets to include an Islamic university and government buildings. Witnesses said the Islamic University was struck at least six times and the interior ministry headquarters levelled by bombs.
Meanwhile… Palestinian Issa Abu Atta places chimes inside olivewood nativities at a crafters workshop in the West Bank.
Go figure.
29 Comments
December 29, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Nice of you to trivialize this obscenity. The Nazis were also content with similar kill ratios. One hundred to one … sounds about right when you are talking about sand niggers? It’s time for the US to stop providing Israel with the where-withal for these massacres.
December 29, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Peter, I don’t think that Red is trying to trivialize this.
Buffoons such a ATY will try to trivialize what is happening by sputtering the meme of supporting democracy….
There has been long discussion on this a few threads back…
Israel is and has been in the wrong for the longest time – I just read Iggy’s comments on the situation. Lots of words to say absolutely nothing… no wonder I don’t think he’s the right leader for the Liberals – he’s echoed Connie utterances…
December 29, 2008 at 6:08 pm
CWTF, I just read Ignatieff’s comments as well. Maybe during his next visit to the lovely province of Quebec he will elaborate on his intial thoughts, re: this conflict.
December 29, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Peter — Perhaps it’s best sometimes to just shut the hell up and not say anything at all. But then that will likely draw fire for NOT having said anything. In any case, you’re FUCKED. Of course, there are always smarmy, smug, self-satisfied bastards who are more than happy to get all righteous and sanctimoniously HOLIER THAN THOU and presume to impute racist epithets (“sand niggers”… who said anything of that nature?) to those with whom you appear to disagree.
December 29, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Maybe during his next visit to the lovely province of Quebec he will elaborate on his intial thoughts, re: this conflict.
Can’t wait to see to see Iggy say something in Quebec and something else in the ROC – a little like Harper….
December 29, 2008 at 7:12 pm
CWTF Can’t wait to see to see Iggy say something in Quebec and something else in the ROC
Sorry…I guess you’re just going to have to wait.
December 29, 2008 at 7:21 pm
OK CWTF…Sorry about that….I guess I just keep on hoping for a show of guts from at least one politician.
On Israel….It’d be nice to hear that they had cleared up those millions of cluster-bombs they left in Lebanon before embarking on this venture.
Mind you they are not intended for civilians and I’m sure there’s small print on them to that effect.
December 30, 2008 at 5:53 am
Shhh those cluster bombs don’t exist – or so Israel told us during the last war. They are a moral country after all and would never contravene international law…
Iggy is working on saying nothing in many words – he’ll be a perfect politician…..
December 30, 2008 at 7:25 am
RT,
Can we drop all this “proportionality” talk? It’s utterly meaningless, unless Israel’s critics would support the murder of a random Palestinian every time an Israeli dies from a rocket or suicide bomb.
December 30, 2008 at 8:02 am
oLaf, what r U trying to speak, yes?
December 30, 2008 at 8:15 am
BC,
what r U trying to speak, yes?
I don’t understand those words and letters in that order. Please elaborate by adding or subtracting a few, as required.
December 30, 2008 at 8:17 am
sure, olAf.
December 30, 2008 at 8:26 am
This is strange behaviour. I also don’t get the emphasis on the A.
I’m as sure that you’re trying to make a point as I am that you’re failing.
December 30, 2008 at 8:34 am
I’m as sure that you’re trying to make a point as I am that you’re failing.
uh? wTF…
December 30, 2008 at 8:50 am
I’m as sure that you’re trying to make a point as I am that you’re failing… to make a point.
What the hell is going on here?
December 30, 2008 at 9:15 am
Can we drop all this “proportionality” talk? It’s utterly meaningless, unless Israel’s critics would support the murder of a random Palestinian every time an Israeli dies from a rocket or suicide bomb.
In an aerial bombardment there’s no way you can guarantee that random Palestinians won’t be killed. Even when smart bombs are used, they cause a lot of havoc. MOS linked a paper on these weapons from the Independent Institute (the institute is a Libertarian think-tank.)
” ‘[T]he 2000-pound JDAM “releases a crushing shock wave and showers jagged, white-hot metal fragments at supersonic speed, shattering concrete, shredding flesh, crushing cells, rupturing lungs, bursting sinus cavities and ripping away limbs in a maelstrom of destruction.’ Hardly anyone survives within 120 meters of the blast, where pressures of several thousand pounds per square inch and 8,500-degree heat simply obliterate everything, human and material. Metal fragments are spewed nearly three-quarters of a mile, and bigger pieces may fly twice that far; no one within 365 meters can expect to remain unharmed, and persons up to 1000 meters or farther away from the point of impact may be harmed by flying fragments. Of course, the explosions also start fires over a wide area, which themselves may do vast damage, even to structures and people unharmed by the initial blast.”
One reason armies like aerial bombardment is that it keeps one’s own troops safer than if you sent them into a deal with a situation. It rarely has to do with concerns about precision and there are some reports that shows “a steady increase in the ratio of civilian to military casualties in armed conflicts.”
As for proportionality…
“An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.”
- Mahatma Ghandi
December 30, 2008 at 10:55 am
Olaf — I wasn’t really making any kind of point with regards to the “proportionality” of the Israeli government’s response to the relentless provocations of Hamas other than to be a little perplexed by the attempts of outside observers to frame this latest conflict in some kind of a rational construct. As usual, there’s plenty of blame to go around and all sides have to bear responsibility for their manifest failure to act in accordance with the religious sentiments they faithfully espouse. Blinkered fucking idiots… the lot of them.
December 30, 2008 at 11:17 am
RT,
Thanks for the clarification on your point.
Also, I think “blinkered fucking idiots” captures the situation nicely.
December 30, 2008 at 11:31 am
It’s hard to muster a lot of sympathy for either side of this latest war. As I’ve said countless times before… it’s another spectacular failure of the imagination.
December 30, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Statistics seem to suggest, that one side in this conflict disproportionality suffers (unless I’ve been lead astray). So me thinks, proportionality is a legitimate concern.
“the relentless provocations of Hamas”
True enough RT, I wouldn’t want my neighborhood to be in the the line of fire by some religious zealots(?), but… can’t this be considered just as provocative as those Hamas rockets?
Anyways… from my limited reading on this subject, it seems both sides, from the beginning, have made serious missteps towards the goal of a peaceful resolution.
December 30, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I think some heads are in serious need of being knocked together.
Perhaps the next U.S. administration can get peace talks back on track, but it’s difficult to be overly hopeful about that.
December 30, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I agree with most of the later posters.
This is a despicable situation that has spiralled shockingly out of control suddenly at Christian Holy time.
Blame is real easy to lay here. Both sides. But please do not talk “proportionality”. That is becoming code talk for “blame the Zionists”
Hamas is evil. Let’s not try to put a fine point on this. Read their Charter (I have) and tell me you think this organization is founded on good uplifting principles. They have lobbed hundreds of bombs into Israel, just to provoke. They have radicalized children with their hate.
Israel is better than this and should keep working harder and harder with whatever moderate forces exist within the Palestinian administered territories. Further, you would think that Israel would know precisely when a bomb is launched and precisely from where. Their response should be surgical and immediate, shouldn’t it?
It’s a bloody mess.
December 30, 2008 at 2:49 pm
BC,
So me thinks, proportionality is a legitimate concern.
Are you implying that so long as both sides suffer proportionately, everything would be hunky dory? Of course not. That’s my point – no one wants proportional acts of violence, so there’s really no point in criticizing disproportionality.
December 30, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Unless it’s Russia.
December 30, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Blues,
Cute link, and good catch.
I don’t think the use of the word “proportionate” in that context was appropriate either.
December 30, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Excellent link and an entirely valid point.
The thing I simply cannot get over here is that Israel has the “whip hand” in determining the course of relations with other countries/entities in the region.
December 30, 2008 at 8:10 pm
RT,
That is the same problem I have. They should be better than they are.
People say that Egypt or the US or someone else holds the “key” to the middle east. I kind of think that Israel might hold the key and not realize it.
February 9, 2009 at 10:12 pm
So I read this later because I was searching for another link… Isn’t it strange how people can completely misinterpret these kind of remarks? I mean, it seems some of these people think you are defending this kind of action!? Anyway, just thought I would mention it since no one else will notice now.
Also, out of curiosity:
-is that a picture of you that accompanies your posts? It may be someone famous but I’m not good like that.
-since you are a red tory, I assume you are now a Liberal. Do you participate at all in the discussions at en famille?
http://enfamille.liberal.ca/forums/
February 9, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Misinterpretation is one of the pitfalls of online communication unfortunately.
The avatar is a pic of the late British actor Ian Richardson (in is role as the politician Francis Urquhart from the BBC series “House of Cards”).
I don’t really participate in forums these days due to time constraints. This place and my job keeps me pretty busy most days. But thanks for asking.